PF #145 “An old man calls to me. The voice of the turtle is heard in the land” (Zed).

[evelpod666]

The Images and clips as follows
The Forbin Project,
Saturn 3,
Looker (1981)
Video (Zardoz)

[vice]

Can you tell us how things stand?

Wh-What next?

An old man calls me.

'The voice of the turtle
is heard in the land.

[vice]

Here's the extra. Doo not say you weren't warned. We got 6 dots again!

[Oh Sees]

Oct 9, 2022 21:45:56 GMT evelpod666 said:

The Images and clips as follows
The Forbin Project,
Saturn 3,
The Lathe of Heaven,
Video (Zardoz)

The image in the top right corner is from Looker (not The Lathe of Heaven): source

Links:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looker

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_3

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zardoz

[vice]

Another SBB reply. Another Zardos picture.

[Oh Sees]

I haven't seen any of these 4 movies, but I just read some summaries. There is a common point between these 4 movies (apart from the fact that they are all sci-fi movies from the 70s/early 80s): artificial intelligence

In Zardoz, Saturn 3 and Forbin Project, artificial intelligence ends up having power over humans and controlling them. This doesn't seem to be the case in Looker, but since I haven't seen the movies, I can't be 100% sure yet.

Here are excerpts from summaries highlighting the role of artificial intelligences in these films:

The Forbin Project

Dr. Charles A. Forbin is the chief designer of a secret project, "Colossus", an advanced supercomputer built to control the United States and Allied nuclear weapon systems.

Colossus' first action is a message warning: "THERE IS ANOTHER SYSTEM" and giving its coordinates. CIA Director Grauber is asked why the CIA did not know this, but Grauber responds that they had seen indications of a large Soviet defense project but did not know what it was.

Shortly thereafter, the Soviets announce that their "Guardian" system is now operational.

Colossus requests to be linked to Guardian. The President allows this, hoping to determine the Soviet machine's capability. The Soviets also agree to the experiment. Surprising everyone, Colossus and Guardian begin to slowly communicate using arithmetic.

Alarmed that the computers may be trading secrets, the President and the Soviet General Secretary agree to sever the link. Both machines demand the link be immediately restored. When their demand is denied, Colossus launches a nuclear missile at a Soviet oil field, while Guardian launches one at an American air force base. The link is hurriedly reconnected and both computers continue without any further interference.

In a last desperate attempt to regain human control, a secret meeting is arranged in Europe between Forbin and his Soviet counterpart, Dr. Kuprin. Colossus learns of it, and both computers order Forbin's return to the U.S. while Soviet agents are ordered to kill Dr. Kuprin, under threat of a missile launch against Moscow. Colossus orders Forbin to be placed under 24-hour surveillance.

Colossus creates a voice synthesizer and uses it to announce that it has fused with Guardian. It instructs both governments to redirect their nuclear arsenals at those countries not yet under "Colossus control".

Saturn 3

In the distant future, an overcrowded Earth relies on research conducted by scientists in remote stations across the solar system. Contact is maintained by spaceships shuttling between the stations and large orbiting space stations. Captain James is preparing to depart from one of these stations when he is murdered by Captain Benson (Keitel). Benson, who was rated "potentially unstable" on a mental exam, steals James' cargo ship and departs the station for a small, remote experimental hydroponics research station on Saturn's third moon. Arriving there, he finds the station run solely by Adam (Douglas) and his younger colleague and lover Alex (Fawcett).

Alex and Adam's idyll is broken when Benson reveals his mission is to replace at least one of the moon's scientists with a robot. The robot — named Hector — is one of the first of its kind, a "Demigod Series", relying on "pure brain tissue" extracted from human fetuses and programmed using a direct link to Benson's brain. Adam tells Alex that he is the likely candidate for removal, being that he's close to "abort time" and will have to leave anyway.
With Hector assembled, Benson begins preparing the robot, using the neural link implanted in Benson's spine. So connected to Benson, Hector quickly learns of Benson's failure on the test of psychological stability, and also of his murder of James. With little barrier between the robot's brain and Benson's, Hector is soon imprinted with Benson's homicidal nature and his lust for Alex. The robot rebels.

Adam and Benson manage to disable the robot while it's recharging, and remove the brain. Believing the danger over, Adam accuses Benson of gross incompetence, ordering him to dismantle the robot and return to Earth when an eclipse ends (this eclipse also prevents communication to other stations). Unknown to Benson, Adam and Alex; Hector remains functional enough to take control of the base's older robots, using them to reassemble his body and reconnect his brain. Unaware of Hector's resurgence, Benson attempts to leave the station while dragging Alex with him. Resuscitated, Hector murders Benson before he can leave with Alex. Hector destroys Benson's spacecraft before the scientists can escape in it, trapping them all on Saturn 3, and assumes control of the station's computer.

Zardoz

In the year 2293, the human population is divided into the immortal "Eternals" and mortal "Brutals". The Brutals live in an irradiated wasteland, growing food for the Eternals, who live apart in "the Vortex", leading a luxurious but aimless existence on the grounds of a country estate. The connection between the two groups is through Brutal Exterminators, who kill and terrorize other "Brutals" at the orders of a huge flying stone head called Zardoz, which supplies them with weapons in exchange for the food they collect. Zed, a Brutal Exterminator, hides aboard Zardoz during one trip, temporarily "killing" its Eternal operator-creator Arthur Frayn.

Arriving in the Vortex, Zed meets two Eternals – Vortex 4 Controller Consuella and her assistant May. Overcoming him with psychic powers, they make him a prisoner and menial worker within their community. Consuella wants Zed destroyed immediately to stop the resistance from using him to start a revolution; others, led by May and a subversive Eternal named Friend, insist on keeping him alive for further study, while secretly planning to overthrow the government and end humanity's suffering.

In time, Zed learns the nature of the Vortex. The Eternals are overseen and protected from death by the Tabernacle, an artificial intelligence. Given their limitless lifespan, the Eternals have grown bored, corrupt, and are descending into madness. The needlessness of procreation has rendered the men impotent and meditation has replaced sleep. Others fall into catatonia, forming the social stratum the Eternals have named the "Apathetics".

Looker

Dr. Larry Roberts (Finney), a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon, is puzzled when four beautiful models working in television commercials request cosmetic surgery to make changes so minor as to be imperceptible to the naked eye. When these models later start dying under mysterious circumstances, he discovers they are all linked to the same advertisement research firm.

The Digital Matrix research firm rates advertising models using a scoring system to measure the combined visual impact of various physical attributes in television commercials. In an experiment to increase their scores, some models are sent to Dr. Roberts to get cosmetic surgery to maximize their visual impact. Though the models are physically perfect after the surgery, they still are not as effective as desired, so the research firm decides to use a different approach. Each model is offered a contract to have her body scanned digitally to create 3D computer-generated models, then the 3D models are animated for use in commercials. The contracts seem to be incredibly lucrative for the models; once their bodies are represented digitally, they get a paycheck for life, never having to work again, since their digital models are used for all their future work in commercials.

Short video clip

I think artificial intelligence is the key to this riddle. As stated by vice, SBB used the 6 dots (......) so we can assume that this riddle is about GTA VI and not Everywhere or something else.

[Deleted]

So R* has already revealed that AI would be leaps and bounds better in VI.

Here's an article from a little over a year ago explaining what exactly that could mean for GTAVI (along with some assumptions from the author)

earlygame.com/gaming/gta-6-news-ai-changes-update-rockstar

I'm absolutely looking forward to learning more about what R* has up their sleeves here. Maybe we're close to learning more?

[ooi]

Will there be robots among us?

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EDIT:

So the turtle line is probably part of a verse from the Bible (Honestly, I know the movie but I've never seen it):

Song of Solomon 2:11-12 (New King James Version)

¹¹  For lo, the winter is past,
The rain is over and gone.
¹²  The flowers appear on the earth;
The time of singing has come,
And the voice of the turtledove
Is heard in our land.

Could be a reference to Spring, rebirth or romance.

There are some discussions trying to determine if turtle or dove was the correct word used in that verse of the Bible, but I don't know if it's important for the matter at hand.

Anyway, here are some links, just for curiosity:
Song of Solomon 2:12 (Various versions of the Bible)
Article 1

Article 2

Meaning of turtle-dove

[vice]

More mentions of AI by SBB. AI AI O

[Prætor]

"AI IO"? Googling it I've found this data science and engineering company: ai-io.io/

[Benefactor69]

The line "he hud a farm AI AI IO" seems like it is also a reference to the old children's nursery rhyme Old MacDonald Had a Farm, in which a repeated statement is that "Old MacDonald had a farm E I E I O"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_MacDonald_Had_a_Farm

Here's an example of the nursery rhyme's more complete lyrics:

Old MacDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O,
And on his farm he had a cow, E-I-E-I-O,
With a moo-moo here and a moo-moo there,
Here a moo,
there a moo,
everywhere moo-moo,
Old MacDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O.

Old MacDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O,
And on his farm he had a pig, E-I-E-I-O,
With an oink-oink here and an oink-oink there,
Here an oink,
there an oink,
everywhere oink-oink,
Old MacDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O.

Old MacDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O,
And on hsi farm he had a duck, E-I-E-I-O,
With a moo-moo here and a quack-quack there,
Here a quack,
there a quack,
everywhere quack-quack,
Old MacDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O.

Old MacDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O,
And on hsi farm he had a horse, E-I-E-I-O,
With a neigh-neigh here and a neigh-neigh there,
Here a neigh,
there a neigh,
everywhere neigh-neigh,
Old MacDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O.

[Prætor]

Ah I get it now, just never had seen the written lyrics.

I'm enthusiastic about the promised AI improvements, specifically about the "machine learning approaches", as we can read on the article posted by br. Telemundini:

"The most confusing one is 'machine learning approaches'. It's not really clear what this means, but it sounds like Rockstar wants the AI to learn and develop and grow. Theoretically then, no two AIs would ever be the same. You and your friend could be playing GTA 6 and the same NPC might just develop into a whole different person, depending on what circumstances the AI is presented with. In simple terms: If my friend tied him up on the rails and I didn't, we each set the NPC off on a different life-path."

Machine learning is a subset of AI which allows a machine to automatically learn from past data or experiences without being explicitly programmed. I believe that, as br. Oh Sees outlined, all the movies have AI as a common theme. If we dig a little more, in all of them the machines start to behave in an unexpected manner, as if they've learned something beyond their programmed capacities.

In The Forbin Project, we have the "Colossus", an advanced supercomputer built to control the United States and Allied nuclear weapon systems, that goes beyond the its intended purpose and ends up taking the world

Saturn 3 has Hector, a robot working from "pure brain tissue" extracted from human fetuses and programmed using a direct link to Benson's brain. Even after being disabled and having his brain removed, Hector remains functional and somehow manages to restore itself, taking over the station.

In Zardoz, the Tabernacle is programmed to protect itself by not revealing information that could lead to its own destruction. However, when Zed finally understands its true nature, Tabernacle surprisingly admits it and allows him access to its inner dimensions.

Looker doesn't have an AI taking over (as far as I've read, haven't seen the movie), but has computer-generated models in commercials that hypnotize people to buy the products. 

[vice]

More mention of AI. AI still at infancy, but we are more advanced on the other hand?? Also, what's this portrait??

[Deleted]

Another turtle reference.

Not sure of this matters, but the art is signed "gerri" which lead me to Gerri Hyman, an artist from South Carolina. www.artpal.com/gerrihyman#i4

[Prætor]

Turtles are used to symbolize longevity, steadfastness, home and retreat. "Slow and steady wins the race" is often associated with the turtle.

We see in the Zardoz video that, when asked "how things stand", Zed replies that "the voice of the turtle is heard on the land". My first impression from this is that things will develop on a slower pace. Perhaps the improvements on the AI demand longer work to be fully enacted. I might be wrong (and hopefully I am), but this would make sense with the phrase "Don't say you weren't warned". This can also mean that the project is aimed to be long-lived, like a turtle.

If someone can debunk this, please do. I'll be glad.